Author Topic: Weapon Mod  (Read 738 times)

Offline Raged`

  • Posts: 578
Weapon Mod
« on: April 16, 2020, 01:34:07 am »
So the question is simple. Just wanted to learn about the players opinion nothing more. This game is ours boyzzz

Offline Hellboy

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Re: Weapon Mod
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2020, 01:46:10 am »
I don't mind both but since we're all used to play with darDar's WM for a while it makes more sense to keep it imo
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Offline mtk

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Re: Weapon Mod
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2020, 02:16:37 am »
I like the idea behind overall dps decrease but ruger wasn't the problem
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Offline CheeSeMan

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Re: Weapon Mod
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2020, 07:20:54 am »
The main problem is servers, if we want to have a decent freeplay we need servers across every region which gather is currently providing for free. So I would vote to keep playing darDar's WM.
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Offline SamWise

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Re: Weapon Mod
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2020, 11:57:59 am »
I don't mind both but since we're all used to play with darDar's WM for a while it makes more sense to keep it imo

(emphasis mine)

I am playing Soldat since yesterday after a multi year break. so you've been playing it for some while now? dayum
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Offline Hellboy

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Re: Weapon Mod
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2020, 12:54:51 pm »
There's indeed plenty of new and returning players (which are also slowly getting used to the darDar's weapon mod btw).
But also many people who played SSC for exemple and those who play gathers for much more long.

SCTFL will begin in about 2 weeks, if the decision is made to switch back to the default one (which I'm equally open to), it has to be soon, imo.

There's also some technical aspects to look into as CheeseMan mentionned of course.
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Offline Tanaka

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Re: Weapon Mod
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2020, 01:28:42 pm »
arent both of those made my dardar? anyway, the biggest problem with the current wm imo is that ak has lost its purpose and is also considerably weaker than all of the other autos. that problem is present in both the wms that are available here.

how can we fix this?

first, what should the purpose for ak be/what should it offer compared to other autos?
imo:
concrete purpose: support/dm/defense

description: it should be a good all-around auto. it should kill slower at range than steyr and slower in close combat than mp5. it should "feel" considerably different than the other two. it should be good for teamfights but weaker than the other autos in a straight up 1v1.

how to achieve this:
- bullets need to be considerably slower than steyr. this makes it harder to use in a standoff vs steyr at distance, adds kiting possibilities and makes the weapon feel more unique
- the firerate needs to be slower than all the of the other autos, this reduces the guns usefulness for "spraying people down", especially coupled with the slower bullet speed. this makes the weapon harder to use but gives it a very unique feel
- it should be very accurate. this is to compensate for the two points above and to make the gun more fun to use in general. you could just remove the selfbink and leave the rest as is i guess. in my opinion random spread as a replacement for selfbink on autos has been one of the worst changes to ever be made to the wm. but ive been told in the past that there have been changes to the code that make selfbink work differently now. if we cant revert to the old state where controlling selfbink was actually a skill then im fine with just removing it altogether, but i still really dislike the random spread. long story short, remove all the selfbink.
- it should have 40 bullets. the thing that made ak so great as a support gun back in the day was that reloading was much less of an issue than for example for steyr or minimi. steyr runs out a lot and minimi reloads forever. with ak you could keep shooting for a very long time (due to 40 bullets+slow firing speed) and the reload was actually still shorter than the minimis. so the tradeoff was that you had a slightly higher ttk with ak, but in return a very low chance to be caught reloading in crucial spots. this was another fact that made it feel more unique and added really well to its usefulness as a support gun. this also made it really great for some niche alt routes like for example blade low or triumph top, where you have to hold a set position for a long amount of time.

i played around with the .ini and some bots for like 10 min to give you an example of how the gun is supposed to "feel" in my opinion. balance wise it might need some more testing.

[Ak-74]
Damage=1.009
FireInterval=12
Ammo=40
ReloadTime=152
Speed=23.6
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.002
BulletSpread=0.028
Recoil=0
Push=0.01376
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=0.85
ModifierLegs=0.75

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Offline Raged`

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Re: Weapon Mod
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2020, 04:01:18 pm »
The main problem is servers, if we want to have a decent freeplay we need servers across every region which gather is currently providing for free. So I would vote to keep playing darDar's WM.

I think thats nothing to do with servers. I also have turkish gather that the servers are located in TR, its the same, low damage garbage front of you.

There's indeed plenty of new and returning players (which are also slowly getting used to the darDar's weapon mod btw).
But also many people who played SSC for exemple and those who play gathers for much more long.

SCTFL will begin in about 2 weeks, if the decision is made to switch back to the default one (which I'm equally open to), it has to be soon, imo.

There's also some technical aspects to look into as CheeseMan mentionned of course.
New players wont even feel the difference. They dont even know how to move. Also the new players starting the game in publics so its off the topic. The returning players was playing the default wm when they were playing actively anyways. Its actually darDar's wm will be new to them. The active players by now, can easily get used to the old weapon mod because they were playing it and know how to play. They're not rusty, their muscle memories know what to do.

arent both of those made my dardar? anyway, the biggest problem with the current wm imo is that ak has lost its purpose and is also considerably weaker than all of the other autos. that problem is present in both the wms that are available here.

how can we fix this?

first, what should the purpose for ak be/what should it offer compared to other autos?
imo:
concrete purpose: support/dm/defense

description: it should be a good all-around auto. it should kill slower at range than steyr and slower in close combat than mp5. it should "feel" considerably different than the other two. it should be good for teamfights but weaker than the other autos in a straight up 1v1.

how to achieve this:
- bullets need to be considerably slower than steyr. this makes it harder to use in a standoff vs steyr at distance, adds kiting possibilities and makes the weapon feel more unique
- the firerate needs to be slower than all the of the other autos, this reduces the guns usefulness for "spraying people down", especially coupled with the slower bullet speed. this makes the weapon harder to use but gives it a very unique feel
- it should be very accurate. this is to compensate for the two points above and to make the gun more fun to use in general. you could just remove the selfbink and leave the rest as is i guess. in my opinion random spread as a replacement for selfbink on autos has been one of the worst changes to ever be made to the wm. but ive been told in the past that there have been changes to the code that make selfbink work differently now. if we cant revert to the old state where controlling selfbink was actually a skill then im fine with just removing it altogether, but i still really dislike the random spread. long story short, remove all the selfbink.
- it should have 40 bullets. the thing that made ak so great as a support gun back in the day was that reloading was much less of an issue than for example for steyr or minimi. steyr runs out a lot and minimi reloads forever. with ak you could keep shooting for a very long time (due to 40 bullets+slow firing speed) and the reload was actually still shorter than the minimis. so the tradeoff was that you had a slightly higher ttk with ak, but in return a very low chance to be caught reloading in crucial spots. this was another fact that made it feel more unique and added really well to its usefulness as a support gun. this also made it really great for some niche alt routes like for example blade low or triumph top, where you have to hold a set position for a long amount of time.

i played around with the .ini and some bots for like 10 min to give you an example of how the gun is supposed to "feel" in my opinion. balance wise it might need some more testing.

[Ak-74]
Damage=1.009
FireInterval=12
Ammo=40
ReloadTime=152
Speed=23.6
BulletStyle=1
StartUpTime=0
Bink=0
MovementAcc=0.002
BulletSpread=0.028
Recoil=0
Push=0.01376
InheritedVelocity=0.5
ModifierHead=1.0
ModifierChest=0.85
ModifierLegs=0.75


I actually agree your advices for ak. But it is not the only weapon that needs to change. In every game the weapons has its own role and unique gaming style. Can we say the same thing in Soldat that each weapon   is played by its  own role? For my opinion not at all and this is impossible with current weapon mode. Lets talk about minimi, its a big heavy gun and you have 50 bullets, it should be more viable for long range fights but guess what happens when you try to fight with minimi in long range. Lets talk about Steyr, it should be viable in mid-long range fights but it kills with 9-11 bullets. Even if you would be a terminator and hit your every bullets, you can kill max 3 players (im not even mentioning its 5 years of reloading speed, also eats..).And HK is so powerfull compared to other weapons, it burst so effectively in short-mid range. Also this is not about the weapon mode but spass is broken. Dont you guys ever think about why people are playing more one shot weapons in gathers ? Because you cant kill them till they get close to you, also  they can run away easily because you dont have enough damage to kill them.  I  think about lower dmg is so stupid. Because in the definition of Soldat there is one saying that " fast peaced game " . But this weapon mode is makes the game clunky, not at it used to be and feels so bad. Also weapon mode is so important for competetive players, i dont understand why is it making by only one person? which he is not even good at this game and he cant be able to understand the needs of the game at all. It should be a team that mixed by top tier players and make a decisions.

Note: Dont hesitate to write your opinions and discuss  here. Because one of my best buddy told me that everyone likes the new weapon mode. So he might not know peoples opinion.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 04:16:40 pm by Raged` »

Offline Chester

  • Posts: 1188
Re: Weapon Mod
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2020, 04:18:08 pm »
I agree 100% that there should be a team of experienced people behind modding the weapons. It's riddicolous only one person (that is not exceptionally good in this game) is responsible for the WM. It should be a team effort!

As for the question which wm should be used in the upcoming season - I voted for default. I'd like to play it and then compare the "feeling" with the SSC (which is being played on dardar's wm).

Offline Verbeia

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Re: Weapon Mod
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2020, 05:06:45 pm »
I agree 100% that there should be a team of experienced people behind modding the weapons. It's riddicolous only one person (that is not exceptionally good in this game) is responsible for the WM. It should be a team effort!

As for the question which wm should be used in the upcoming season - I voted for default. I'd like to play it and then compare the "feeling" with the SSC (which is being played on dardar's wm).
This is totally true.One guy effort on weapon mod is terrible idea because this is the thing that competitive scene effects.darDar needs to create a team with experienced guys and test things out instead of making changes by himself.AK is one of the best gun in the shoting based games but in this game you cant do much with AK. Todays soldat is pretty much spas,steyr in competitive scene.We need changes for sure.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 05:18:40 pm by Verbeia »

Offline CheeSeMan

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Re: Weapon Mod
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2020, 06:21:16 pm »
I think thats nothing to do with servers. I also have turkish gather that the servers are located in TR, its the same, low damage garbage front of you.

I mean we need servers to play matches on, if sctfl takes default WM but all gather servers are loading a different WM - where will we play matches? Also dardar is in charge of WM, so afaik when / if helloer releases 1.8 then this WM becomes default anyways.

« Last Edit: April 16, 2020, 06:24:00 pm by CheeSeMan »
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Offline Robin Huud

  • Posts: 81
Re: Weapon Mod
« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2020, 08:06:59 pm »
I agree 100% that there should be a team of experienced people behind modding the weapons. It's riddicolous only one person (that is not exceptionally good in this game) is responsible for the WM. It should be a team effort!

As for the question which wm should be used in the upcoming season - I voted for default. I'd like to play it and then compare the "feeling" with the SSC (which is being played on dardar's wm).
This is totally true.One guy effort on weapon mod is terrible idea because this is the thing that competitive scene effects.darDar needs to create a team with experienced guys and test things out instead of making changes by himself.AK is one of the best gun in the shoting based games but in this game you cant do much with AK. Todays soldat is pretty much spas,steyr in competitive scene.We need changes for sure.
Such a team was actually created but the problem was that people didn't participate in its activities. And attempts to bring in new people to replace inactive ones was mostly futile due to no one willing to put any effort on such a project, to the point of refusing to join it in the first place.
While I agree such a team should exist it's also on individual community memberss responsibility to actually contribute to the teams efforts if progress is actually to be made.

Offline Chester

  • Posts: 1188
Re: Weapon Mod
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2020, 08:12:31 pm »
I agree 100% that there should be a team of experienced people behind modding the weapons. It's riddicolous only one person (that is not exceptionally good in this game) is responsible for the WM. It should be a team effort!

As for the question which wm should be used in the upcoming season - I voted for default. I'd like to play it and then compare the "feeling" with the SSC (which is being played on dardar's wm).
This is totally true.One guy effort on weapon mod is terrible idea because this is the thing that competitive scene effects.darDar needs to create a team with experienced guys and test things out instead of making changes by himself.AK is one of the best gun in the shoting based games but in this game you cant do much with AK. Todays soldat is pretty much spas,steyr in competitive scene.We need changes for sure.
Such a team was actually created but the problem was that people didn't participate in its activities. And attempts to bring in new people to replace inactive ones was mostly futile due to no one willing to put any effort on such a project, to the point of refusing to join it in the first place.
While I agree such a team should exist it's also on individual community memberss responsibility to actually contribute to the teams efforts if progress is actually to be made.
So no favouritism - simple as that. I see plenty of people that have a lot of ideas regarding the WM. Tanaka for starters :D

Offline Robin Huud

  • Posts: 81
Re: Weapon Mod
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2020, 09:49:33 pm »
I agree 100% that there should be a team of experienced people behind modding the weapons. It's riddicolous only one person (that is not exceptionally good in this game) is responsible for the WM. It should be a team effort!

As for the question which wm should be used in the upcoming season - I voted for default. I'd like to play it and then compare the "feeling" with the SSC (which is being played on dardar's wm).
This is totally true.One guy effort on weapon mod is terrible idea because this is the thing that competitive scene effects.darDar needs to create a team with experienced guys and test things out instead of making changes by himself.AK is one of the best gun in the shoting based games but in this game you cant do much with AK. Todays soldat is pretty much spas,steyr in competitive scene.We need changes for sure.
Such a team was actually created but the problem was that people didn't participate in its activities. And attempts to bring in new people to replace inactive ones was mostly futile due to no one willing to put any effort on such a project, to the point of refusing to join it in the first place.
While I agree such a team should exist it's also on individual community memberss responsibility to actually contribute to the teams efforts if progress is actually to be made.
So no favouritism - simple as that. I see plenty of people that have a lot of ideas regarding the WM. Tanaka for starters :D
There was no favoritism whatsoever, there were announcements in discord that you could join the team if you wanted to., but people didn't take the initiative.

Offline ricr

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Re: Weapon Mod
« Reply #14 on: April 17, 2020, 03:52:58 pm »
Hi. Thank you for getting this conversation started. We're conducting an official poll on this topic here for direct use in SCTFL30. I encourage you to re-register your votes and continue these discussions in the official thread.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 03:55:22 pm by ricr »
Ill have to disagree, players r not scared. No one wants to play a boring match against 3 minimi's  ;)